After the Friday massacre of single payer, no doubt many of you are wondering the same things I am: who betrayed me? what happened? What next? Here is my take on the subject.
It started with the failure of Jon Corzine and Creigh Deeds to win the governor elections in New Jersey and Virginia, respectively.
Particularly in New Jersey, Obama put himself into the race in a state that went heavily for him in 2008. He traveled several times to New Jersey to make stump speeches for Jon Corzine, the incumbent. Despite his (supposed) personal popularity and his recognized oratorical skills, Obama was unable to push Corzine into the lead. Instead, a far-right Republican and protege of Bush won the race. Bad bad news for the Democratic party and for the mid-term Congressional elections.
Next thing we heard, Harry Reid is saying that the health reform bill might not even come up for a vote in the Senate this year because he can't round up sixty votes to bust a filibuster. to my mind, the election and the Senate delay are intimately connected.
At that point, Obama has to do something quick to salvage his most difficult political move. After all, he vowed to be the last president to attempt health reform. He HAS to get the House bill passed. If he doesn't get it passed, there will never be a vote on the Senate bill and his credibility will be zilch. You begin to hear more positive support from the White House for the public option and then you begin to hear specific support for the House version of health reform.
But there is a fly in Obama's ointment: single payer supporters have made enough noise that Pelosi has to keep her promise to let Weiner have a vote on the floor of the House on single payer. She can't wiggle out of it, even though she tries. You hear her say she supports single payer, then you hear that there will be a vote but no debate. That's not enough. She still can't budge enough Blue Dogs to get enough votes to pass the House health reform bill.
The Blue Dogs see that they are in command, because they are the only Democrats who has enough balls to draw a line in the sand and say 'Forget it -- we are taking our ball and going home unless you strip out the public option entirely. Watering it down is not enough. We want the insurance companies to control the whole shooting match. We have to kowtow to the tea-baggers and taxnuts who will defeat us in the next election if we even breathe a word about health care being anything other than bought and sold.'
Of course, every other Democrat, progressive or middle-of-the-road, is thinking the same thing: how do I hold onto this great gig I have? Some of them, purportedly single payer supporters, beg Pelosi not to bring single payer for a vote because it will be used against them. Some of them, Eric Massa among them, demand that undocumented aliens be specifically denied health care because their districts are full of rabid bigots. Some of them, Conyers among them, just keep quiet. Some of them, Kucinich among them, have a different axe to grind. And so Pelosi, despite every kind of concession to Blue Dogs, bigots, racists and know-nothings, still is short 25 votes to pass the watered down health reform bill. So what happens next? Whose prestige is this all about? Right. Obama steps in.
Obama personally arm-twists Weiner to drop his amendment vote demand. Take a look to see what Weiner will get down the road -- a new Brooklyn Bridge? Brooklyn and Queens being the next site of a giant Army base?? a giant new ship building program at Brooklyn Navy Yard?? Who knows.
Kucinich and Conyers are log-rolled too. Kucinich (Polish descent) goes down easy -- the President signs papers making Casimir Pulaski, Polish Revolutionary War hero, an American citizen, even though there wasn't any America in Pulaski's lifetime. (NB--I am receiving many many rude comments telling me that Kucinich is not Polish. That appears to matter more than any substance to the argument. Well, my information comes from the Associated Press, who described Kucinich as Polish in this article. So go make your rude comments to them.)
Conyers goes down a little harder. Who knows what he got, but note carefully what happens to the prosecution of his wife in Detroit for bribery.
And so it goes.
The latest CBO estimate on the House bill says that there are 50 million Americans without health insurance, which of course translates 'inadequate health care' and 44,000 deaths per year. How many will be uninsured after the 'buxom public option' is fully implemented in 2019? 54 million. Gee, what a great step in American health care and promotion of civil rights. Are you glad you worked so hard to get Obama elected? Are you glad there is a Democratic majority in both houses of Congress? Has your hard work paid off?
What next? I don't know. Whether or not I personally ask Congresspersons to vote against this bill, sarcastically named the Affordable Health Care for America Act, is really irrelevant. The game is not being played to the tune that you and I are hearing. It is being played to the tune of cash registers aka political war-chest contributions. That has always been true, but there was always hope that our noise made some difference at the margins. That hope is now gone.
Will our hope ever again have a realistic basis? Will health care ever be a human right in America, as it assuredly is in the rest of the industrialized world? Good question. But it will not ever be a human right under this legislation. Health care will still be a commodity, to be purchased at the highest price. Just like politicians. As you may recall: if you have to ask how much it costs, you can't afford it.
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Comments (75)
Hairy Carrion
said:
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... I didn't vote for Obama. I don't vote for the democrats. Don't vote for the repubs either. I never vote on party lines, because there is no two party differentiation. Not really. I liken this farce of a body politic we have here in the U.S. to what Ralph Nader said, "The only difference between the two parties is how fast they drop to their knees when the corporations walk into the room." To that end, I'm not disappointed. Not even shocked. What we have here is a wretched form of communism, for the wealthiest, and feudalism for the rest of us schlubs. And until the people see the system we are being fucked by for what it really is, not a goddamn thing will change. And we will continue to be bled every which way from center. It's time to get radical, unreasonable. Even unlawful. It's time to take it all back. Enforce a true representational government. Do any of these corporate shills represent us? NO! They don't. With the exception of one or two, who actually believe they must represent the people who elected them, and had the integrity to not be purchased by big money, there is NO ONE who represents us. My question to my fellow progressives is, "How long are you going to sit on your asses and continue to believe in these whores?" You wouldn't think twice about not giving into the lies and tricks of a crack whore running her game on you just to make a buck to buy some rock. The same shit is being shoveled by the people you have elected into office. And now they're taking even more away. How long, guys? How long? |
Kyle Christensen
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... I didnt vote obama either--I am a socialist. I really want to keep fighting this fight, but I have to admit, as long as so much money is involved, the US hasnt a chance. I am loooking into getting licensed in canada--have to brush up on French and job hunt during an illness, but, its better than mulling over this lost country much longer. My family is still here, so let me know what I can do. It takes a coupla years to get canadian citizenship anyway, and my sister is srtill being bankrupted by cancer.....the person above must not be speaking to me.... |
Beverly Jane Boling
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... I agree with everything you said. I am totally disgusted with the present results. My pet cause has always been full abortion protection for women. Last week when we lost just about all of the pro-abortion language was when I really got angry. This is the worst health care legislation since what we got with Hillary Clinton's attempt. BTW, does anybody know what will happen to the HMO's and PPO's of Hillary's old plan? I haven't heard anything about them in this new legislation. I feel all of our hard work to get single payer, or the public option has turned out to be a waste of time and lots of hard work. I see that it is back to politics as usual--the best politicians money can buy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! |
Kyle Christensen
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... It is just another example of how conservative this country has become. Hillarty's plan was better than this! (not much, but...) I am sick to death of Dems and find the GOP not worth killing...so...lol |
DebbieKat
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... Clark - I understand your anger. I didn't vote for Obama and really didn't expect much of him. That being said, you are wrong about Kucinich. First of all, he's NOT Polish. According to wikipedia, he is of Croatian and Irish descent. Kucinich sent out an email the other day explaining why he didn't want a vote on Single Payer. This is what he said: "There has been no debate in Congress over HR676. There has not been a single mark-up of the bill. Single payer was "taken off the table" for the entire year by the White House and by congressional leaders. There has been no reasonable period of time to gather support in the Congress for single payer. Many members accepted a "robust public option" as the alternative to single payer and now that has disappeared. The Congressional Budget Office (CBO) has scored the bill scheduled for a vote tomorrow in a manner which is at odds with many credible assumptions, meaning that it will appear to cost way too much even though we know that true single payer saves money since one of every three dollars in the health care system goes to administrative costs caused by the insurance companies. Is this really the climate in which we want a test vote?" All this being said, I think it is time for the people to have more direct participation in creating legislation. If you agree with me that our representatives no longer represent US but represent corporations, PLEASE visit vote.org and consider voting for a national initiative. |
Margery Coffey
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... We have never been out of the feudal system. All they do is rename it. The elite class gets everything, the middle class gets screwed and the poor remain poor. It is what is killing the planet because the greed of the elite class is matched only by their love of violence. For a brief period in the 20th century we had what is called hope. It will not be allowed under the current rulers. We need to understand it is not about Congress nor the President. It is about Corporations which are the ego extensions of the elite class. As long as they are allowed to rape the planet, loot the treasury and oppress the population we will continue the same old same old. |
Cynth Poet
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... I don't think we need to give up hope altogether. Here's what Zaid Jilani says about this: "I know that today many single payer advocates are disheartened. You have every right to be. Your health care idea, which has many, many merits, and a great deal of support all over this country, has essentially been tabled right now. "But I don’t think single payer advocates should lose hope. The single payer vote was called off by the fiercest advocates of such an approach. They saw the wisdom in not calling a vote for something they’d get only 20 minutes to debate, to seeing the idea voted down in a flurry of opposition. "I have faith that the simplicity and strength of this idea will one day beat out the strength of the entrenched monied interests, and even move the sometimes seemingly unshakeable political class here in the capital to embrace the idea and stop settling for half-solutions. It’ll be a long fight, and a hard fight — if the battle for relatively mild reform we’re currently engaged in is any indicator — but it’ll be one that we will all rise to the occasion to be a part of. We’ll have this single payer fight one day, but when we will, we’ll be ready for it, and it’ll be at a time and place of our choosing. And when we finally do that, we’ll win." source: http://trueslant.com/zaidjilan...ayer-vote/ Yes, we've been waiting a very long time for Single Payer. Perhaps the only reasonable thing for us to do is engage in non-violent civil disobedience (sit-ins inside the office buildings of Wellpoint, CIGNA and the rest of the profiteers) might work better than just griping about how slowly the government does things. It took marches, arrests and non-violent civil disobedience for Jim Crow to be legislated away. Are we willing to put our bodies on the line, risking arrest in non-violent protests, to make our dream a reality? If not now, when? If not us, who then? |
Dee
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... I agree we can't wholeheartedly blame it on either party. Both had to have at least some members - and more importantly leaders - who failed to show proper the proper leadership and ethics to put the people first and corporate buyers of their souls second. Where I don't agree with the Congressional Democratic leadership is that it's better to leave Single Payer off the table and in particular that it's a good idea to pass this "we sold the nation's soul to the insurance companies" health INSURANCE access improvement act - it's not going to be health CARE that we're getting - and call it "reform". Maybe we will have to settle for "incremental reform" but you don't protect chickens by hoping to reform the fox just outside the hen house. Your protect the chickens by improving the safety and security of the hen house and by getting rid of the fox and any other foxes in hiding. What Congress is trying to do with this "insurance company bailout bill" is entrust one of the organizations most responsible for access problems to health care - and in many ways also the cost problems in health care - to help solve the very problems they created by promising to instantly stop bad business practices IN RETURN FOR MORE BUSINESS created by MAKING more of us by insurance and many of us who'd be new customers are those who've been denied insurance by the insurance companies because of the practices they're promising to quit. As someone who'd be in that group, were I not now on Medicare, I think I'd be making a better investment buying the infamous "Arizona beach front property" than buying and hoping to actually use insurance from a for-profit company with my pre-existing condition list. My Mama raised me smarter than that. |
Kyle Christensen
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... Cynth--I agree, but , what about those of us that dont have a long time....... |
Pat Danser
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... All I can say, and yes it's pretty selfish of me, is thank Buddha or whoever that I have the VA Health System. I have MS and am on disability both VA and Social Security. I had no so-called Health insurance before the VA so I would have been royally screwed. This country must change it's mind set about health care, most people think it's like car insurance, you only need it when something bad happens. I have been with the dreaded socialized care all my life, as a child in France, an army brat and in a the Navy and now a crippled Veteran and proud of it. Yes, I have had the mind set all my life, I neither think health care is a right or a privilege but just is. But this country has made it a privilege of having a job or rich enough like many other factors in this country. If you aren't lucky enough to have the right job or the right education or born to the right parents then you don't deserve to have good health care unless out of the goodness of our hearts or wallets we give you some Charity. Yes this country can be selfish and self centered and I guess that's why we are so powerful and hated by so many people throughout the world. If you don't change that mindset, we deserve what will happen. |
Robert Lipton
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... As long as bribery in the form of campaign contributions is legal, as long as a senator with a constituency of 3 million has as much power as one who represents 10 times as many, as long as lies have the same currency as truth, that's how long it will be before this country makes progress worth measuring not just in healthcare but in a thousand other areas where people are pitted against profits. Of course that doesn't mean we give up. |
Kyle Christensen
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... I (and another citizen, every 15 min) do NOT "deserve " what is happening to us!! I know that that is not what you meant, but, please, stop being so selfish! I worked as a social workere for many years, everyone in my family has (or had) advanced degrees, and, at least a decade before I became "sick", I fought for health care for all, as I had seen in my WorkCamp in Europe---I am disgusted. "In spite of my rage, I am still just a rat in a cage!" Fellow, rats, break me out! Lets storm the Bastille, fellow rats! To the barracades! (lol) Seriously... |
Kyle Christensen
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... Here is the email I recieved from Kucinich and Conyers ie the amendment (although Stupak is introducing an abortion amendment anyway) From Congressmen Dennis Kucinich and John Conyers Dear Friends, We thank you for your continued devotion to the cause of health care for All Americans. We have worked together for many years to write, promote and campaign for HR676, a single payer, not for profit health care system. Your work, in communities across America, has been instrumental in helping at least ten states create single payer movements, with many more states to come. Tomorrow, the House of Representatives is scheduled to consider a single payer bill. As the two principal co-authors of the Conyers single payer bill, we want to offer a strong note of caution about tomorrow's vote. The bill presented tomorrow will not be HR676. While we are happy to relinquish authorship of a single payer bill to any member who can do better, we do not want a weak bill brought forward in a hostile climate to unwittingly accomplish what would be interpreted as a defeat for single payer. Here are the facts: There has been no debate in Congress over HR676. There has not been a single mark-up of the bill. Single payer was "taken off the table" for the entire year by the White House and by congressional leaders. There has been no reasonable period of time to gather support in the Congress for single payer. Many members accepted a "robust public option" as the alternative to single payer and now that has disappeared. The Congressional Budget Office (CBO) has scored the bill scheduled for a vote tomorrow in a manner which is at odds with many credible assumptions, meaning that it will appear to cost way too much even though we know that true single payer saves money since one of every three dollars in the health care system goes to administrative costs caused by the insurance companies. Is this really the climate in which we want a test vote? While state single payer movements are already strong, the national single payer movement is still growing. Many progressives in Congress, ourselves included, feel that calling for a vote tomorrow for single payer would be tantamount to driving the movement over a cliff. The thrill of the vote would disappear quickly when the result would be characterized not as a new beginning for single payer but as an end. Such a result would be seen as proof that Congress need not pay attention to efforts to restore in Conference Committee the right of states to pursue single payer without fear of legal attacks by insurance companies. We are always grateful for your support. We are now asking you to join us in suggesting to congressional leaders that this is not the right time to call the roll on a stand-alone single payer bill. That time will come. And when it does there will not be any doubt of the outcome. This system of health care injustice will not be able to endure forever. We are pledged to make sure of that. Sincerely, Congressmen John Conyers and Dennis Kucinich |
Richard Posner
said:
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... This country has been run by a corporate-fascist cabal for decades, but the American people have been in denial. Now that you've seen the corporatists in action, maybe you can gin up enough energy to read the history of fascism in Europe and this country (in the '20s and '30s). The same names and corporations that stuffed socialism into a box then have kept at it since. Wake up, dummies! Any so-called liberal without a gun is asking to be marched to the camps. Don't have a job? Too damn bad. Disabled? Go and die. Try to get disability through your Social Security program. Quit buying plastic crap at WalMart and start learning how to form revolutionary cells. Those who refuse to learn from history are condemned to repeat it. |
Paul
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... I am just about over my anger and resigned that for all the nonsense that has gone on over the past six months, that we will only get some slow incremental improvements while the insurance companies get the big payoff. Should any of us be surprised? Unfortunately no. A few comments. The end of single-payer (was there really a beginning) has nothing to do with Jon Corzine. Believe me, Jon Corzine has been extremely unpopular here in NJ for a couple of years and his loss has nothing to do with Obama, health care reform or the like. I would be thrilled with a public option as a start but even if the sliver of a public option survives (doubtful), it is nothing but a joke. There is little public about it. The thing that has really disgusted me is that the ban on pre-existing conditions does not go into effect until 2013. That is next to unforgivable. The interim high-risk pool is a poor substitute. The sorry fact is that whatever gets enacted will be an improvement. My son needs insurance (pre-existing condition) and at least this crappy bill ensures he gets something. Am I happy? No. But to walk away would spell complete and utter failure which would translate into nobody talking about health insurance reform for another 15 years. The bottom line is that our congress is dysfunctional, politics triumphs over reason, common sense and logic are completely lacking, and most people are just plain stupid (and that goes for our elected officals too). |
Catherine Jarosz
said:
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... Dear Health Justice supporters, I first realized, a decade ago, that the struggle for universal, single-payer health care in the U.S. would NOT be a short-term one when I learned that Teddy Roosevelt had tried and failed! ! ! Nonetheless, single-payer quality health care for all Americans is something I have been supporting for the past decade. Sadly, I haven't been as active in the struggle over the past few months, due to my own health problems. My perspective on health care delivery is, perhaps, a little different than most Americans. I am the daughter of a Scottish immigrant with many relatives still living in Great Britain. Also, I have worked in health care for the past 40 years, the last 30 of which have been for a non-profit health care delivery system. I view health care as a human service, NOT a for-profit commodity that values patients only as vehicles of profit, and which denies service and expells them when their care becomes costly. The current congressional situation is sorely disheartening for those of us who support single-payer as the most socially just and cost-effective paradigm to deliver universal coverage to all Americans. It seems that the truth of our statistics of the suffering of our fellow citizens, the studies, marches, educational outreach, and the thousands of petiition signatures that we have gathered are trumped by the monied power of the for-profit health care industry and the politicians whose election campaigns they fund. I DON'T PLAN ON GIVING UP ! ! ! I plan on supporting efforts for universal coverage in my home state. Perhaps, we could follow in Saskatchewan's footsteps, and come up with a plan that is better than the chimera of a plan that Massachusetts has. Let's make Teddy Rossevelt proud of us, Catherine Jarosz |
Allen Lomax
said:
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... We've only just begun. As Gandhi said, "First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." Single payer will WIN because, (1) it is the most economical and the most efficient health payer system, and (2) health care is a right not a privilege. One thing everyone can do now: Join the Million Letter Campaign. To sign-up go to: www.medicareforall.com. The mission of the campaign is to get a million plus snail-mail actual paper letters to Congress in a one-month period. The goal is to attain that objective by November 2010. The non-violent civil disobedience will continue and if you are able to participate do so. PNHP will continue their research. To my knowledge there is no other organization whose total mission is dedicated to the study of health care payer issues. All of the following organizations are continuing to work for Medicare for All: Healthcare-NOW! Progressive Democrats of America Public Citizen Healthcare for All Texas Western PA Coalition for Single Payer Alliance for Democracy There are many other organization from churches, civic organizations, municipalities, and grass roots organizations that will continue this effort. I’ve worked some with OFA and MoveOn this year and even though this organization totally dropped the ball (my opinion) in this endeavor, almost to a person every organizational member I’ve spoken with prefers single payer. The members of these organizations went along with the “Obama plan,” not because they believed in the plan, but because they believed in the Man. Let’s not forget that the AFL-CIO voted unanimously in support of Medicare for All. They have not focused on the issue to the degree that many of us would like to have seen but unions have been under attack in many areas this year. They like all of us have only so many resources. They also came late to the game. It was August before they held their national conference, held the vote, and made the commitment to support Medicare for All. Nevertheless, their support for Medicare for All is not going away and should not be taken for granted. Seniors like their Medicare. Seniors vote. They are not going to loose their Medicare. For the first time ever, many seniors have woken up to the fact that denying their privilege to the rest of the population, is an injustice. We need to work to make many more seniors painfully aware of this fact. The USA, just like Europe, has always been to one degree or another a plutocracy. Nevertheless, every European nation has universal health coverage – several of them have single payer systems. If they with their long-standing plutocracies can attain this goal, so can the USA. As Churchill famously quipped, “You can always count on the US to do the right thing, after they’ve tried everything else.” The right thing is Medicare for All. The USA is heading there, we just haven’t arrived yet. |
DebbieKat
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... Paul - Wasn't corzine also involved with Goldman Sachs somehow too? I wouldn't be surprised if there was some backlash about that as well. |
SanchoPanza
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... I want a single payer system. I have lived with a single payer system. In the past 10 years I have had 4 different single payer systems. One of them was Regence, another was UnitedHealthCare and there were two more. They were not options. I had no choice. All insurance is, by definition, socialism. Insurance shares the risk among many for the good of all. The fear in this country is an absurdity without limit. I want a single payer system that I can get to understand before it changes again. I want coverage that will not be cancelled if my health deteriorates. I want coverage that will not be limited to a preferred providers list unless I pay substantially more. I want coverage that reduces the complexity rather than increases it. This public option is being promoted to provide the private health insurance sector with a piñata composed of money and self-justification. Like our Medicare it is limited to the sector of the population most likely to require greater care hence cost more ipso facto prove that public health care doesn't work. Health care companies score the money of subsidies from the taxpayer and get a bonus of "proof" that the government can't run squat. Sure, Medicare is running in the red, I know three people right now who have conditions requiring immediate action who are waiting for the clock to turn them into eligible and they can get the care they need now. One is a gifted and dedicated teacher who cannot speak above a whisper for whom there is a surgical solution (she was between jobs when the condition struck so lets not hear about "teachers are covered") and I am sure that there are many more. Wow! Medicare is expensive! I'm so surprised! A great deal has been made of the "penalization" of the young by requiring them to pay for health insurance they don't theoretically need but nothing is said about the corporate dictated health care coverage which does exactly the same thing. This laser guided amnesia has got to come to an end on the part of all of us. Single payer in Canada is under attack from forces that would like to introduce more "private sector" (let's call it what it is, pirate sector) into Canadian health care. One of the tactics, used here in the US is to underfund. Another is to not address fraud, which overwhelmingly comes from the pirate sector, (the Bernie Sanders video lists only some) by weak or nonexistent enforcement of weak regulation or nullification of any strong regulation. Voting for a party that hates the government (small enough to drown it in a bathtub) will only be a self fulfilling prophecy. Oddly enough, it makes more sense to me to vote for what I consider a party equally as corrupt by virtue of accepting the largess of the pirate sector and making noises of being for the nation over the corporation. It's going to take a lot of work and money but I suggest we start in one state and follow the Tommy Douglas model where it works and taking a good look at the studies conducted by the Singapore and Korean governments on health care systems of advanced nations. Its not just about health care. This time it has to be about policy too. Courage |
Marybeth Kuznik
said:
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... Everyone who has a slavic last name is not Polish. I strongly support single payer healthcare, but I as a Slavic-American (Slovenian descent) find your comments and presumption about Dennis Kucinich being Polish and "caving" in because of it offensive. Very offensive. For your information I believe that Dennis Kucinich's grandfather may actually have come to the United States from Croatia, a totally different country hundreds of miles from Poland. |
saut
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... All of us who have been waiting since August for the historical promised floor debate and vote on single payer are disappointed/angry/confused/betrayed. But let's not lose hope. First of all, no one ever expected that Anthony Weiner's amendment to the House health care bill would pass. The important thing was to have that debate on the House floor and also to have single-payer scored by the CBO. In the end Pelosi--under pressure from phone calls, e-mails, faxes and sit-ins--agreed to the vote, but only allowed 20 minutes for debate. And, as Dennis Kucinich explained in his e-mail the day before the vote was scheduled, the CBO scoring was not favorable and in fact, did not take into account many of the cost-savings inherent in single-payer. A vote on Friday would not have accomplished anything positive for the single-payer movement under those circumstances. Second, I don't believe that Republican wins in two off-year gubernatorial races affected the health care debate in Washington one way or the other. I can't speak for Virginia, but as a NJ resident I can attest to Corzine's unpopularity. None of our three leading candidates were in favor of single-payer. Corzine was unusual among Democrats in that every environmental organization either endorsed no one or one of his opponents. Corzine's environmental record, New Jersey's rapidly escalating property taxes and rampant government corruption have nothing to do with health care reform. Third, I don't believe that Conyers, Kucinich and Weiner sold out the single-payer movement for personal gain. Kucinich's explanation of why he wanted to stop the vote Friday made a lot of sense to me. I thought it was pretty darn late, after we were all mobilizing to get that vote to happen and urge our reps to vote for it. I think what happened over the past several weeks underscores the need for better coordination among single-payer advocates. Regardless of what happens with this round of "health care reform" a.k.a. "The Insurance Industry Profit Protection and Enhancement Act", the single-payer movement will not go away. As insurance premiums keep rising and insurance companies keep doing as they please to their premium-paying customers who have the audacity to actually get sick and require a payment from their insurer, more and more people are seeing the need for a profound change in America's health care paradigm. |
Lorileslie
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... These are all such good comments full of information. Why are we not hearing this on the news media or in a discussion of the healthcare issue by people in Congress or an official committee so that the whole population REALLY knows what is going on rather than relying on the lies, innuendoes, and information paid for by the health insurance industry, other big businesses and their pawns (the Congress people who take their bribes to vote for the industry). It is outrageous that a country as technoligically advanced as ours provides so little real information to it's people. |
DebbieKat
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... Lorileslie It is because all of our media is corporate-owned and care about profits. They want to keep the status quo. How many commercials do you see on these networks for pharmaceuticals, health insurance providers, etc.? As Randi Rhodes says "The news has been canceled" and it has been canceled for quite a while now. |
Paul Troyano
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... I believe we need to try to get these current bills to fail, because I really don't want to see mandated insurance. Then try for Weiner Amendment ,single payer or Medicare for all in Spring? Paul |
SanchoPanza
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... It is a trueism that mandated insurance in the absence of strict price controls and stringent regulation is simply another mother lode for the insurance industry. Since the insurance industry appears to be writing the majority of the legislation don't expect to see much of that "strict" or "stringent" stuff going on. Tommy Douglas "invented" the system currently in use by Canada and adopted by Singapore and Korea recently after those jurisdictions studied other systems throughout the world. This rational approach (study others) proved to be too much for America who always seems to be bound to discovering the wheel for itself instead of doing the intelligent thing and using the accomplishments (and failures) of all those who went before as a pattern for a coherent health care approach. Thus, we get this rag bag of nonsense out of a congress totally unconcerned with the nation but completely consumed with re-election. In my own state Patty Murray's campaign has been kicked off by AHIP with an ad commending Senator Murray for her support for their bill. I'm completely flabbergasted to hear that she supported anything since she is quoted as believing that the best way forward to be happy with what we have and surprised that people think their premiums will go up. Premier Douglas created a health care system in Saskatchewan that became the gold standard for health care for all and eventually, in rather short order, the other provinces began to demand a similar system. Eventually it spread to the whole country and the Canadians now have 13 different single payer systems unified by a federal legislation that only mandates general guidelines but ensures compliance with federal funds contingent on adherence to the basic 5 principles of the Canadian system. Canada does not have a single payer system but rather 13 single payer systems. This should translate well here with states rights advocates in this country and the federal legislation, which leaves most details to the states, requires only a broad over view or approach but one which would ensure a level of parity across the nation. The Canadian system is public insurance with public-private health care. Even in this country we have county hospitals and private hospitals so there would be no change there either. Google Tommy Douglas and meet the most popular Canadian of all time. If the President wants to become the most popular American of all time, and I believe that he does, here is a path that will guarantee him that status. More than a "uniquely American solution", we need the best solution we can come up with. Leave the xenophobia at home. Others have done the lab work. Others have made the mistakes. Others have adjusted and refined their healthcare systems over time. Germany instituted health care with Bismarck (Health Insurance Bill of 1883) which is actually the model we are using right now. The Germans have done a lot of fine tuning since 1883... That program was attacked as socialism as well. |
Clark Newhall
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... Apparently, more people care about whether Kucinich is properly described as Polish than about the substance of this issue. The AP reported that Kucinich is part Polish at http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/s...E=DEFAULT. So make your rude comments there. Not here. |
Harry Kershner
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... Re: "You wouldn't think twice about not giving into the lies and tricks of a crack whore running her game on you just to make a buck to buy some rock." I think this comment is an unwarranted attack on crack whores. Our non-representatives, DP and RP alike, are far worse than crack whores. How many deaths can be attributed to crack whore games? Meanwhile, this robust private option will kill tens of thousands and the wars, occupations and environmental catastrophes that have been ignored because of the "health reform" nonsense will kill many more. Shame on us all. |
Mabel
said:
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... Now I can say--wait for it--: DON'T BLAME ME; I VOTED FOR KUCINICH AND THEN NADER. By the way, you malign Dennis. He's done his best despite being slapped down repeatedly. I agree with Paul Troyano: being forced to pay protection money to racketeers is the ultimate outrage. |
Clee
said:
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... Mussolini described his form of government 'Fascism' should be called 'Corporatism', the union of corporate and state power for the mutual benefit of both. This has been the post Civil War American model pretty much non stop with a few bumps in the 1930s. When the corporate powers did not get their way then, they plotted to oust FDR and set up a Fascist government in USA modeled after Nazi Germany. The key players were JP Morgan, the DuPonts, Carnegie, Prescott Bush of Brown Brothers Herriman Investments and other familiar names seen at the end of many PBS presentations. Had it not been for the actions of Brigadier General Smedly D. Butler, FDR wold have been assassinated, or arrested and America would have been an out post of the undefeated and never fought Third Reich. Although marginalized and defeated in their efforts they never gave up and the result is Corporocracy we have the great misfortune to live in to this very day. That being said, it is small wonder and no surprise that any legislation that actually supports and benefits the common man in this nation will be thwarted, and demonized with accusations of "Socialism". If it is not a direct benefit to the ruling classet,. it is to be stopped. That is the state we are in today. The Coup is complete, it is done and we the people are not invited. We are expected to go along for the ride complacent as drugged sheep to the butcher and keep voting for the same sell out corporate whores masquerading as "THE REPRESENTATIVES OF THE PEOPLE" as if our votes really make a difference, as if we really live in a representative democratic republic. We don't, not even close. This country is a hoax, a sham and a global lie. We have no problems wasting 1.9 million dollars every goddamn minute snuffing foreigners and supplying our imperial garrisons scattered throughout the globe 'protecting American Interests' (what ever in the fuck that might be) but have a tizzy fit when some 'Socialist Commie Nazi' (just what is it Mr. Beck?) suggests we use a fraction of that money to benefit those here at home rather than make big piles of dead US soldiers and bigger piles of dead foreigners. After watching how corporate interests control every signing of every bill, after watching how corporate media paints and taints every representation of events through the glass teat of TV, after seeing how often any real benefit for the common good is destroyed, I can say I am an American only because I was born here. My values are not those of tge ruling elites or the government bordello. All I can say is NEVER NEVER NEVER EVER AGAIN VOTE FOR ANY DEMOCRAT OR REPUBLICAN. They are all whores, and not fun ones either. |
Kyle Christensen
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... Mabel, I love Kucinich and campaigned for him...but, in the end, he is a Democrat. Even when he objects, he votes with them. We have to do better than that. He may be the best we have, but we have to do better. If we keep counting on Dems, we will always lose, even when we "win".There is no other country in the civilized world that has an electoral system like ours (duopoly and all) and it is time to change it If that means a Constitutional Convention, so be it. If that means Revolution, people are dying from the worst kind of violence now---poverty and lack of health care. I dont give a rat's ass what his ancestry is. |
Martha Koester
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... Does anybody even GET what is going on politically here? Kucinich et al caved because damn near the entire progressive NGO comminity is against them and for the crappy "reform" substitute. All yesterday I was replying to emails from ACORN, NOW, NAACP, NARAL, Feminist Majority urging me to support the House legislation as is. We (and that includes national Health Justice) have been talking to the wrong people. Our strategies have been formed more by what we enjoy doing than by what is the most effective when there is actual legislation being discussed--and one of my fingers is pointed at the list and the other three pointed back at me. I like going to street fairs, and I like guerilla theater. But these things are highly inefficient when legislation is moving rapidly. One cPERSON at a time is what we need to do when there is no legislative action going on. I thought that working through neighborhood groups might be better, but that is still too inefficient. The groups we should have been talking to are NARAL, FUSE, ACORN, NAACP, NOW, Feminist Majority etc. What they have in common are being national in scope and being part of a general progressive issues political faction. People like Domke and Lakoff have been trying to tell us that all progressive issues groups are connected by common values. Due to issue specialization, though, it is really hard to figure out what legislation to support on issues other than the ones we focus on most intensly. I've heard that financial regulation and climate change bills are being watered down, but with the final versions be worth it for me to support either of them? I am about as clueless here as NAACP is about Pelosi's bill. I think that the groups meeting with legislators and civil disobedience hae been several more notches up in effectiveness. Still, the teabaggers have gotten more press for trashing Pelosi's office than months of civil disobedience have gotten us. We need to recognize that we will always be swimming upstream here, as we are ethically constrained by the principles of nonviolence, and work at thinking up different ways of making them pay attention. |
Joel Hildebrandt
said:
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... There's no way to sugar coat it: We Got Screwed. It feels as if we're watching the status quo, which is dismal, battle Satan (Beck, Limbaugh, Cheney, Palin) trying to drag us into Hell. And it's really hard to get excited about defending the status quo. I don't see the "reform" bill accomplishing anything at all, other than to whitewash more corporate welfare and control of our lives. I'd be very happy to be proven wrong. On the other hand, these people are doing what needs to be done--the only thing that can be done I think, Civil Disobedience--and deserve our support. http://tinyurl.com/yhhk2sv Joel |
Single Payer Now
said:
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... The role of the anti-abortionists needs to be recognized in the failure of healthcare reform. They are a powerful lobby and will cut off their face to defeat any legislation that does not meet their demands. They are hypocrits of couse because if they cared about those babies after they were born they would support accessible, affordable and fair health care. They suck up to Republicans who have found an issue to win elections, an issue that is incompatible with their old position where Republicans regarded welfare mothers and their children as so much vermin. Proposals for sterization were not unheard of. Republicans know they have the antiabortionsists behind them and they can win, the only babies they care about are their own! Another factor in this defeat is that it has not been made clear by what is meant by "cuts in Medicare". Seniors are frightened by these cuts and protest healthcare reform because they think Medicare will be cut. Republicans invented "Medicare Advantage Plans" as a sneaky attempt to privatize Medicare as part of the Medicare Modernization Act. Medicare Advantage Plans are PRIVATE plans subsidized by Medicare and regular Medicare recipients. It costs Medicare 14% more to subsidize these private plans to bait seniors to enroll. Obama and Congress have not explained to seniors what Medicare Advantage Plans are and why they need to be abolished. There are about 10 million seniors enrolled in these plans and face losing their perks. It should be explained that if these plans succeed in enrolling a majority of seniors, Medicare for All will be something drastically different. It would not be there, it would be what those under 65 now have. Another factor that weakens support of single payer is the Republican balanced budget act of 1997 where it is mandated that there be a 21% cut in Medicare payments to doctors if the budget isn't balanced. Balancing the budget was not their long term goal but rather it was to cause doctors to reject Medicare recipients and thereby help Medicare to "wither on the vine". This can be addressed by putting doctors on salary and abolishing fee for service. Most doctors have not rejected Medicare but there are limits and can you blame them? If this problem is not addressed Medicare for All could be something that those under 65 now have and don't want. The Republican assault on Medicare is never ending. The imperfect Medicare we have is a miracle but it needs to be improved by eliminating the 20% cut for private insurance companies that Republicans enacted into Medicare. HR676 would have done just that. |
Christina Campbell
said:
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... The corporations own our government and we deserve everything we get because we have become complacent, lazy and filled with fear. We are so easily divided and distracted. So when things get worse, and they will,then maybe Americans will wake up and take it to the streets and demand what is ethical and right. The French would have stormed their capital and shut down commerce long before this. |
Joel Wayne
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... There is an old biker saying: "I used to be angry, now I'm just amused." Why all the shock and anger? This country was NEVER dedicated to improving the lives of common people. Read about the Constitutional Convention. Were there any "common people there? Nope. The "Founding Fathers" (who are all long since dead and hence irrelevant, and in any case never of one mind on ANYTHING) were all wealthy elitists who feared ordinary people. What our government has become is little more than an inevitable consequence of that fear. I don't blame politicians for their mendacity and greed any more than I blame a dog who shits in the corner and then grins at you. That's what dogs do. That's what we PERMIT our politicians to do. We have arguably the most ill-informed and ignorant electorate in the world. I have not been able to sway ONE of my conservative acquaintances to a rational position on this issue. We will piss $189 billion down two ratholes this year alone, and not ONE of them has a problem with that (nor can they explain what the strategic goals of the wars are), yet they are up in arms over $90 billion a year for a watered down bill to marginally benefit their fellow citizens. What to do? They must be educated, gently, and with tact and tenacity. If a public option passes, and does not negatively affect their lives, they will have tasted the stew, and not having died from it, will hopefully ask for another helping. Single payer is inevitable. We WILL win out in the end because the present system in structurally unsustainable. In short, the roof is leaking, and the guy you hired to fix it ain't getting the job done. As far as a third party goes, it SOUNDS good, but leads to a parliamentary system with coalitions and votes of no confidence and elections every few months. Hmmm... given the current state of affairs, perhaps I'll have to re-think my opinion on the subject... |
Michelle Bandor
said:
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... Everyone in D.C. is bought and paid for, whether with cash or political influence. It's become apparent that the best interests of the people of our country take a back seat to political strong arming. I want a revolution and I want it NOW!!!!!!!!!! |
Kyle Christensen
said:
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... Who needs 1997 "balanced budget" when you have Pelosi and Obama touting, "deficit neutral" for health care, while spending many times more on war and bank bailouts. Dems are MORE guilty because they are in charge! By the time the US figures out that universal , ala EU, is the only way., the empire willl be bankrupt from wars and we will be a Third World country. I really believe that. But, needing medical care now, I dont have years to wait. I am still going to try for Canada..... |
Allen Lomax
said:
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... Joel, I hear your pain. I have a family full of wing nuts. The fact is though, they are not a majority. I'm sure that is news to them as are many true facts. Nevertheless, they have a lot of political clout for several reasons but one primary reason is that they have a consistent message with consistent terminology. It is easy, though, to be consistent when you have no tolerance for differences so in this respect the wing nuts will always have the edge when it comes to message. It is my opinion that we could have had a consistent health care payer reform message along with consistent terminology. If we had had a leader who from day one laid out the message and spoke the terminology we would have been much further along. With the ground swell of support that is truly here, we may have had Medicare for All. Medicare for All is a simple message and the terminology is straight to the point. 12 principles was a loosing strategy from day one. When O came out with those principles, I just shook my head and said, "He sold out to the cartels." I also believe that had OFA and MoveOn followed what their grass roots members wanted rather then what O wanted, that things would have turned out quite different. These two organizations that were brilliant in the campaign have been a huge disappointment in the health care payer reform movement. |
Allen Lomax
said:
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... In my earlier post I gave the wrong URL for the Million Letter Campaign. The correct URL: www.medicareforall.org. |
Kyle Christensen
said:
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... Allem, so true. I often wondred if the Dems had concentrated on health care reform instead of the "stimulus plan" and bailing out banks, they wouldve had alot more political (and financial!) capital to work with. |
Eastern European-American
said:
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... To Clark Newhall -- someone expresses their opinion that they are offended by all eastern Europeans being lumped into Poland, and YOU call them rude. You want rude, try this -- my opinion is that anyone who thinks that all people with names ending in ich, nik, or ski are Polish are RACIST because you don't care enough about these people to even bother to differentiate that there are different countries and cultures in Eastern Europe where their families originated. I am SO tired of this I could vomit. So make YOUR rude answer to me in hell, please. And even if Dennis Kucinich is part Polish I highly doubt a quid pro quo on that affected his stance on healthcare. Disgusting. |
Joel Wayne
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... Allen, you are correct. I saw this lack of a clear message from the beginning. It's only gotten worse. Medicare for all was touted and rejected in the nineties, but it's time has come. I fear we have another empty suit in the WH. Policy, in order to be embraced, must be explained to electorates such as ours in the simplest of terms. Nobody reads the damn bills, and those who do, unless they are lawyers, cannot understand them. Sentences, not paragraphs, sentences not paragraphs... I have, as I have said, had some success with the Right by asking the simple question: what are our strategic goals in Iraq and Afghanistan? this works like a charm with folks who can't find Ireland on a map. As I write this, I have just heard that the house passed its version of reform with something like 249 votes. Its gonna be a roller coaster ride. I believe if this bill becomes law, and people get used to i, see its a better deal than the shit policies they pay rent for, that it will ease the way for further reform. BTW, have you noticed that "health CARE reform" has morphed into "health INSURANCE reform in the WH and congressional language? Interesting. I am a bit leery of the medicare "cuts," but that's just my luck, as I have 18 months to go before I'm eligible. |
Allen Lomax
said:
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... Good point Kyle. I had not thought of the stimulus vs. health care reform from that perspective but now that you point it out it makes perfect sense. I'm not an economist but I can see how Medicare for All could be a stimulus for middle America but would have some what of a halting effect on corporateering. Med for All would take a huge monkey off the backs of small businesses thus freeing up capital for other endeavors. Med for All would also open doors for many what-a-be entrepreneur by taking away the health care concern. Med for All would immediately drop bankruptcies by 65%. It would reduce medical costs while employing more health care works. It would put America on a prevention plan rather than a sick plan. You're right - pretty fantastic stimulus package for middle America. Given the D.C. realities, one can see why we got the Wall Street stimulus vs. the health care stimulus. |
saut
said:
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... Re: "Rude" comments on Kucinich's ethnicity. Clark, comments by people who are trying to get the facts straight are not rude. Accusing the author of HR676 of selling out the issue about which he is clearly passionate--now that's rude, and not helpful for a postmortem of "what the hell happened". The supplied link was broken so I googled and found: http://www.google.com/hostedne...QD9BQD4G00 (sorry, no commenting available there, so comments will continue to come here.) This is apparently the AP article to which Dr. Newhall was referring when he accused Dennis Kucinich of selling out single payer for a posthumous honor bestowed on a Pole who helped the United States achieve independence from Britain: Revolutionary War hero becomes honorary US citizen By WILLIAM C. MANN (AP) – 1 day ago WASHINGTON — Finally, Gen. Casimir Pulaski became an American citizen on Friday, 230 years after the Polish nobleman died fighting for the as yet-unborn United States. President Barack Obama signed a joint resolution of the Senate and the House that made Pulaski an honorary citizen. Pulaski's contribution to the American colonies' effort to leave the British Empire began with a flourish. He wrote a letter to Gen. George Washington, the Revolution's leader, with the declaration: "I came here, where freedom is being defended, to serve it, and to live or die for it." Democratic Rep. Dennis Kucinich, a Polish-American, had been pushing for the honorary citizenship since 2005. He lives in Cleveland, which has many other citizens of Polish extraction. "Pulaski made the ultimate sacrifice for this country, and he deserves nothing but the highest honor and recognition for his service," Kucinich said then. Washington had heard of the young Pole from Benjamin Franklin, an urbane traveler who had been Washington's first ambassador to France. Franklin told Washington of Pulaski's exploits that had made him "renowned throughout Europe for the courage and bravery he displayed in defense of his country's freedom." The revolutionaries' top general let the young nobleman hire onto the brash fight against the European superpower, and Pulaski made a name for himself as a skilled horseman, eventually to be known as the "father of the American cavalry." He died before the British were driven away. In October 1779, he led a cavalry assault to save the important Southern port of Savannah, Ga., was wounded and taken aboard the American ship USS Wasp. He died at sea two days later. Americans have honored Pulaski throughout the last two centuries. Counties and streets are named for him. In 1929 Congress declared Oct. 11 to be Pulaski Day in the United States, a largely forgotten holiday in much of the country. The Continental Congress suggested that a monument be erected in honor of Pulaski, and in 1825 it finally was erected in Savannah. *** The AP writer apparently assumed that if Kucinich was trying to get honorary citizenship for a Pole, then he must be Polish. In fact, the district he represents includes many people of Polish descent, but according to wikipedia: "[Kucinich's] father, a truck driver, was of Croatian ancestry; his Irish American mother was a homemaker." The AP article makes it clear that this joint resolution of the Senate and the House and subsequent signing by the President did not happen overnight. I'm not Polish or Croatian, I don't live in Ohio, and I didn't vote for Kucinich, but nevertheless, I'm offended by the venom of Clark Newhall's accusations in the absence of fact-checking. Sticking to the facts while avoiding hyperbole and misinformation are essential to achieving a national single-payer health plan. Devouring our own only furthers the goal of our opponents. |
Allen Lomax
said:
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... Joel, I'll remember the Iraq Afgan question. Overall, I try to avoid being entangled in discussions with wingnuts. I am too easily sucked into an emotional downward spiral when confronted with such all encompassing ignorance. I am learning, though, to take a deep breath and face it with more equanimity and less emotional attachment but the approach is basically against my nature. You are on to something though, the ignorance is not mine to own but theirs and questions are much more effective than explanations. I hope you're right about this disappointing legislation being a step forward. I fear though, that it will do more harm than good -- something like Medicare Part D. Like PNHP put it, "Asprin for cancer." I advocate against the passage of the plan. From my perspective, it like MedD will do nothing but further enrich the insurance industry. One of my wingnut relatives who is on Medicare sees part D as the perfect example of a bureaucratic failure of government. Even after explaining how insurance lobbyists with representative complicity brought us part D, she still sees it as the perfect example of bureaucratic rather than legislative failure. She, of course, has no intention of giving up her Medicare. Speaking of Med Part D, have you noticed the ads that AARP has started running in support of the bogus health care plan? You may remember that they were huge advocates of Med Part D. What more should we expect? They are, after all, first and foremost in the health insurance business. Talk about the proverbial wolf in sheep's clothing! |
Frank Kirkwood
said:
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... "(The game) is being played to the tune of cash registers aka political war-chest contributions." This is accurate but it doesn't have to be this way. The Fair Elections Now Act, with more than 120 co-sponsors, will give members of Congress an alternative source of campaign money - small donations matched by public funding. Read about it, get your members to co-sponsor. It does not matter that SP is widely-supported, fiscally responsible, and the only universal plan. That isn't relevant to Congress. Members need to constantly raise money for re-election. They are dependent on a small group of individuals and industries to finance their campaigns. They are not listening to us, they are not working for us. This is what they mean when Members of Congress say, as they have from the beginning, that single-payer isn't "politically feasible". And they are right. If we are ever to succeed, we must neutralize our opponents' power over Congress. The Fair Elections Now Act helps to do that. http://www.fairelectionsnow.org/content/fair-elections-now-act-co-sponsors |
Allen Lomax
said:
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... Just read that Kucinich voted against HR 3962. You can read his explanation: http://pdamerica.org/articles/...4-news.php |
Joan Almond
said:
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... intelligence, commitment, concern and creativity are evident in this conversation, along with outrage, cynicism, etc. so many questions come to mind. When did human beings/people become consumers? Consumers of medical services, chits in the capitalist system. How much can they wring out of a consumer unit? Ka-Ching!$$$$ When did corporate america downshift our consciousness? As Einstein (paraphrase) said, "no problem was ever solved at the level of consciousness that created it" And if Washington is part of the "problem", how can we ask it to help us solve problems? Shifts in language, perspective, consciousness, and memes need to happen on a grassroots level to gather populist support for the kinds of change we would like to manifest. And, this is already happening. |
Kyle Christensen
said:
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... Joan--I resent the term "consumer", dont you? We are citizens, and, when we are ill, we should be patients..."consumer" makes health care sound like something you can "choose"--I dont feel that way about life or death services. They are a human right. But will the US ever realize that? I also do understand Kucinich's explanation (he is a Dem, what do you expect?) but we shouldve gotten a chance to expose the House for what they are. |
Kenneth Kenegos
said:
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... It is apparent to all that there will not be single-payer legislation this time around. The so-called Friday Massacre of the Weiner amendment was gut-wrenching. It is understandable that we who have worked tirelessly with the knowledge that healthcare legislation was finally on the national agenda now feel a deep sense of frustration, disappointment and anger. But we cannot let that define us! We are not naïve about the political system. We knew that the forces of the insurance companies and other big money interests that lined up against our attempts to make healthcare a human right were strong and ruthless. We knew that politicians weigh carefully what political capital to expend as well as the capital they will need for the next election. We knew that the political and economic system in this country is a stacked deck being dealt by the forces of money and power. There is only one force that can defeat those interests and that is a mobilized and educated population. The single-payer movement grew significantly and gained support that at times even brought our message through the media despite the official declarations that it was “off the table.” But we did not succeed in reaching the critical mass necessary to win. We must begin now to take the lessons of what worked and what didn’t to make ourselves into a smarter stronger force that will succeed in the future. We all know that healthcare will be revisited because the current legislation (if it passes??) will not resolve the crisis. We must reach deeper into the fabric of the society so that the morality of healthcare as a human right and the economic logic of single-payer become common sense and common knowledge. Of course there are many politicians bought by the insurance companies, but to call those who in the last hours saw reason to abandon the Weiner amendment and even support HR 3962 sellouts, is simplistic thinking that will only serve to isolate us. We need to speak with those representatives to understand exactly what happened. Conyers voted for HR3962. Kucinich voted against it. This is a crucial moment for the future of the single-payer movement. Recriminations and finger pointing will not make us stronger. It’s time to reach out to those who bought the ideas of compromise that turned into hollow promises. We must make single-payer the idea around which all who desire a truly universal and equitable healthcare system are organized. We cannot satisfy our wounded egos by condemning those who honestly made other choices. We cannot grow the movement with a holier than thou attitude. |
Kyle Christensen
said:
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... Sorry, but, in my professional life as well as personal, I have been working on this for decades. We are only asking for what every civilized nation on earth has and some act like we're asking to move heaven and earth. If these Dem Reps had any cajones, it would be HR 676. They can all go to hell. They lost alot of Dems this weekend and I am STILL trying to get my money together to ap0ply to move to Canada. I have that choice, or, just wait to die on medicaid. I am tired of all the intellectualizing around this. We have a right to demand better. |
Clee
said:
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... Here is today's Democracy Now interview with D Kucinich explaining his reasons. http://www.democracynow.org/20...amendment I didn't want a plan without a robust public plan either and single payer I felt was the best way to go. But thanks to The Obamatraitor it will not happen. In fact nothing The Obamatraitor promised has come to pass has it? Oh he did promise to fight "The Good War" meaning Afghanistan and that promise is going along swimmingly, so there is 1 he has kept. As a single non disabled male with no dependents but sub pov income, I'm pretty sure the 'means testing' that always is attached to any public assistance will disqualify me and millions like me. So....can't can't afford the extortion fee, can't afford the fines, then what? Work gangs? Rex 84 camp built by Halliburton? What I do not know. I envy Kyle for being able to relocate to Canada. As I have an arrest record, I am stuck in this Milton Friedman nightmare called USA. I wonder about Cuba or Venezuela. I wonder how much longer intelligent Americans are going to wake up and realize writing letters to our DC hos is useless. Speaking of crack whores, I've dealt with a few and I would trust most of them more than a politician. For those of us stuck in USA, I propose that we refuse to participate in this extortion scheme. Pay no fines, send notices to representatives instead. Send insurance plans we will be forced to buy to them as well. Stage sit ins at their offices like the folks did at APAIC's man Lieberman's office. If you end up in jail, and your cell mate askes you Hey Bub, wutchaya in for?", you will garner his immediate respect when you tell him you are in for standing up to oppressive government policies and refusing to participate in government extortion handing billions over to billionaires. Another thought on tax protest; I think Progressives should give it a new face. Traditional tax protesters, nearly always right wingers rant against the act of paying taxes, any and all taxes. I think it is time Progressives re-frame it in terms of getting something for our tax dollar. I mean, you don't walk into a grocery store, hand the checker $100 and walk out empty handed do you? But that is not too far from what we get with our tax dollars is it not, little that directly benefits us. No decent health care, infrastructure falling apart, salaries and platinum plated golden benefit plans for the very people who continually screw us and ever increasing heaps of dead and broken soldiers and civilians in distant lands. So it is time we demand something for our money. you buy a faulty product at a store, you demand your money back or an exchange right? Why should taxes be any different, if not more so? We pay for the golden parachutes for these people and the golden showers they give us. It is time we did more than politely say "Excuse me a bit mate, would you mind shaking it a bit, I'm getting bloody well all of it". Ultimately any real change in this country is liked to destroying the militarism mind set and the idea of "America Under Siege", by heathen barbarians. The peace movement should be part of any health care movement. Billions are spent without question or debate to kill, maim and destroy and everything else suffers for it. This must stop. Like most wars, Oamatraaitor's "Good War"s is a hoax. It has nothing to do with alleged terrorists and 9/11. No really! As the invasion orders for Afghanistan were signed by 'Dubya MD; " himself ON SEPTEMBER 10, 2001 how could the Afghan War be about 9/11 pay back? It can't and it ain't. It has been great for the War Industry though and in the end, that is what most wars are about. If Obama was an honest man, he would publicly announce this and bring all troops home. Since he is part of the same machine he must perpetuate both the lie and the war. It is money wasted on terrible events and we should demand it be spent on us, after all it is our money for Jebus sake. Anyone remember Stepponwolf's album "Monster"? "America we need you now, don't you care about your sons and daughter? America we need you now we can't fight alone against the Monster". |
Kyle Christensen
said:
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... Clee--I agree with what you say about the military industrial complex as well as the medical industrial complex. But, please dont envy me--Canada is cracking down on "medical refugees" and I may not be able to get citizenship at all. I wil have to refresh my French (greatly!) and pass a Canadian Civil Service Exam while trying to work with a disability (meningioma, as well as a motorcycle wreck)...there is just as big a chance I wont get there as that I will...but I have to try. The surgeon I can see on Medicaid --well, you wouldnt want her cutting your head open, believe me... |
mk
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... Yeah, it sucked, but it has been sucking all along. This is going to be a long and hard fight, so we better get used to the setbacks. The trick is to get up and continue fighting, and learn from any mistakes. I enjoyed reading through all your comments, and have a few things I'd like to echo: 1. I'd like to thank Clark for all the great work he did here, it was a pleasure to be able to fire off many of his faxes. Thanks for all that, Clark. You were a great ally to have. On the flip side, you need to hear what people are saying about the Kucinich/Polish bashing. I know you are hurting, but this is not something you want to pursue. Let it in, and then let it out. 2. I agree that the major roadblock to anything good coming from our government is money. We've simply got to get the money out of politics, before we can start expecting government to actually begin serving the people in this country. The current system is rotten to the core, and that fact is becoming more obvious to more people every day. We have to get together on that fact, organize, and push for reform. The numbers are ridiculously in our favor, get just need to get it together. I consider all of you allies, and I hope we can shake off this setback, learn from it, and get back in the fight soon. We need each other, to beat back the greedy, selfish thing that America has become. It's our revolution. |
Joan Almond
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... Christina Campbell on the 7th makes a simple clear point. Witness Seattle in 1999 when the WTO tried to meet in order to put the rest of the world under corporate domination. Non-participation in the corporate dominated world/reality, when possible, is the Gandhian/non-violent resistance that can transform us. If we examine our lives to see how much our habits and lifestyle choices support corporate america we might be surprised, or not. When it comes to universal health care as enjoyed by citizens of other countries, our government doesn't get it because they are one and the same with Wall St./Insurance Corporations/Big Banks Etc. Not quite a seamless entity yet, but almost. They thrive on getting us,the people, to think that we need them. It is the other way around from my perspective. We must not see ourselves as oppressed victims. That is "old" thinking that can possibly keep us from being more creative. Can we just by-pass all these guys and create our own health care co-op. I've never had insurance, except auto. I gave birth at home and raised my daughter without health insurance. I'm more likely to go to my local herbalist than an MD, because I don't like pharmaceuticals. But if i broke my leg, I'd like to know that I could get it taken care of by a doctor. And those of you who've written in who have some serious health concerns, you deserve more...way more |
Slick Rick
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... Harry is exactly correct. So we all still have to elect somebody to the House, Senate, and Prez. Why not turn your efforts and money to the Green Party? I have. Have given up permanently on Dims. You should consider your options. But please, don't just go into a hissy fit, followed by a pouting jag, and give up reposing into a cocoon. Get behind SOME third Party! |
Kyle Christensen
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... There have been co-ops for a long time and they seem to cost alot. I have supported Green candidates, Socialists, Independents, etc. Rick I dont think that Joan is "having a hissy fit" (??), but I have heard the anarchist, drop-out thinking before, and, I think it will take alot more than that to get their attention. But, I am not in a position to go off and live off of the grid as I once did. As far as contributing to corporate America, I honestly dont much. I really cant. When I dont vote, etc, I feel guilty. I think it is just the way I was brought up. Clee mentioned Cuba and Venezuela--I have honestly thought of both. If you go to Cuba, you really cant come back nor have friends or family visit, and Obama doesnt seem much wanting to change that (I was hoping he would, but I hoped he would do alot of things). Venezuela, I dont know. I was afraid that they hate Yankees too much! I have read that Mexico has a national health plan that you can buy into once you are a citizen. I have read that it is a pretty good system. It is frustrating to me that this is a life or death issue to me (and many I love) but I am just afraid to go to jail, with my health as it is. I cant contribute money. I would have things to contribute to a co-op...I am afraid to go back to work (I had an offer--but with no insurance!!) so I feel very stuck. What does anyone think of Sen Sanders' amendment? The Bill, the “American Health Security Act of 2009,” Senate Bill 703, is the first piece of single-payer legislation introduced in the Senate since the 2002 death of Minnesota Senator Paul Wellstone. Under its provisions, patients could seek care from a doctor or hospital of their choice under a federally funded plan administered by the states. Unlike reform proposals being floated by Senators Baucus and Kennedy, S. 703 would eliminate the role of private health insurance companies in healthcare delivery, producing administrative savings in excess of $400 billion per year.”So long as we remain dependent on private insurance companies,” said Senator Sanders, we’re never going to have quality, cost effective healthcare for all Americans.” S. 703 would also provide resources to train additional primary care physicians and fully fund community health centers, which many rural Vermont residents depend upon. http://sanders.senate.gov/ |
Clee
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... Sander's idea is very much what many of us peasants have wanted, that is getting the insurance vampires out of the system. Really, just WTF is their roll in health care delivery anyway? Why are they even there. They are there only to collect an admittance fee, like a door man at a nightclub except with nightclubs, you really have to be a complete asshole to get kicked out without a refund. With insurance companies, all you need to do to get kicked out is require the services you have paid for in advance. In any other business, such a business model would be illegal and result in the closure of the company either through government action or loss of customers. Instead, it is rewarded and now we will all be forced to be customers of such an immoral predatory system. When Obamatraitor said his clip about not wanting to see our neighbors, some of them insurance agents ect lose their jobs, I pretty much lost hope that any decent thing would come out of the whole thing. As long as they are in the picture, it will be an ugly picture. The usual refrain of course is to maintain our "Free Market" and the establishment of a real and efficient public service for health care delivery violates that sacred creed. I have askd my DC whores how does forcing everyone to buy from a certain industry without having a choice, and being fined if I do so NOT VIOLATE "FREE MARKET" DOCTRINE" i get no answer but silence of meaningless form letters. Such a concept directly opposes free market if tthat is understood to mean that a business will thrive or dive based on its products and services and the willingness of the masses to buy those products and services. Obviously forcing anyone to buy from a certain company or industry is not free market anything. e I urge you to all ask your reps to clarify and explain this double standard. And another question, why is there no outrage over the felonious price for dental work? Why is no one talking about this and putting it and eye optical under a public program as well. I haven't been to a dentist since 1988, and certainly can't afford to do so now. Here is a tip though, I recently found out that you can get dental care free if you go to a dental school where you wiil be worked on by students under the direction of experienced instructors. There is one here that will do it at no cost and I will ge an appointment before the ear is out. And about Kyle's comment about Yankees and Venezuela; a few years back I talked to the local consulate for Uruguay about moving there after the liberal socialist leaning priest become president. The Consulate said in Venezuela as long as you told anyone you were disgusted with your home country, you would be ok and be welcomed. They are still all too aware of the US efforts to dispose of Hugo and are happy to see Americans in opposition to their country'a foreign policy. And about the influence of money and the buying of 'our alleged representatives'. A Finnish friend of mine living here in US, seeing its influence with the eyes of an outsider made this suggestion. Since it is more likely to see a live T Rex in a diaper than to see campaign reform that puts the people and not corporations in control of the government, he suggested we the people play by their rules, which are no rules. We the people find among us some representatives who will be our 'lobbyists'. We all contribute $10 to $100 into a working fund and our lobbyists will just out buy the congressmen and other whores. 50 million uninsured contributing say even just $100 is 5 billion. Use that money to buy off these pricks. That is what it is all about anyway right? To paraphrase the Elemental in "The Chronicles of Riddick", we must fight corruption with a different form of corruption. Use this money to fund truly progressive candidates that really have the needs of us and not big business in their hearts and to sway the minds of those already in office to do the same. The utimate goal of course is to get incumbents out in the long run. In closing, I will reiterate the plea to refuse to participate in our own fleecing by the kings of the castle and our alleged betters. |
mk
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... I like S.703, and Bernie's my favorite senator, but no other senator has co-sponsored it, so I assume that means that all 58 dems have already agreed (in exchange for PAC money, of course) to keep single-payer off the table. Therefore, I don't think much will come of S.703 right now. But I'm really glad Bernie put it out there. What does intrigue me is that Bernie has recently come out and said that he will NOT support any senate bill without a robust public option. Now that is some serious political leverage! I love the idea of Traitor Joe and Bernie joining the Repub filibuster, essentially forcing the senate dems to consider strengthening their Public Option (way beyond what the House came up with). Of course, the rub to that is that if you please Bernie with a decent Public Option, you still have only 59 -- still one short. But, having said that, if Bernie sticks to his guns and holds out for some very real reform (which to my mind, would be the original conception of the Public Option, with 129 million enrollees) that would be a huge breakthrough for eventually getting to single-payer someday soon. Once people see that a really robust Public Option can kick the Insurance Companies ass, outperforms them with less money, I think we're halfway home. Once public opinion really turns in a big way, no amount of bribery can hold us back (witness what finally happened to the tobacco industry, once enough people "got it"). We've got to continue educating the millions of potential allies out there on the virtues of single-payer and the vices of for-profit insurance, and that means all these folks who have suffered extreme brainwashing over the past 30-40 years. Reagan was wrong, the radical Right is wrong, the NeoCons are wrong, Rush is wrong, Fox is wrong, and Bush/Cheney was a fucking disaster. I think the Republican Party's days are numbered, they went over to the Dark Side too deeply, and I don't think they can disengage now. History is turning on them, and reality is coming into focus. The Democrats are also in real trouble, as a party, unless they can really come clean over all their many past sins of bribery. A revolution is coming, and I think some "third" party is going to emerge around that movement. It is essentially the movement of people over money. More and more people are getting that very simple fact, that this current government is corrupt to the core, serving money, not people, and once we hit a critical mass, they'll be no stopping us. |
Kyle
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... Clee--Venezuela sounds good,,,how is houseing expense and health care, do you know? MK--I am SO tired of waiting for Dem to "do the right thing"--I think they crossed the line a long time ago. |
Clee
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... MK, You are right there tat a third party might actually get traction and I hope soon. The Dems have went too far in their sellout to corporate interest and sadly non GOP voters have let them and I think that like the GOP (Guns Oil Plutonium) the Dems' days are numbered too. They serve the same masters and only verbalize that support differently for their audiences. Following is an article I sent to The Progressive Populist editorial /opinion page a few days ago. I hope they see fit to print it. This voices my concerns and fears, now more amplified since we are facing the reality of even more control of health care delivery and access being given unto the insurance vampires. As the current bill stands it would be better if it were to die as passing it would make shit even shittier, if such a thing were possible. The mandate gives them freedom to do or not do what ever they wish without consequences and my predictions are laid out here in the letter....... Just read on HealthJustice.org that any talk and debate on single payer and public option is dead, again. That makes this connection even more critical in understanding (and preparing for) the future of health care in our CSA; Corporate States o America. Just when I thought American Capitalism couldn’t get any meaner I read Ralph Nader’s “Rolling the Dice Again” in The Progressive Populist Oct. 15, ’09. It bares the cruel reptilian souls of the ruling class, most notably the Investor, Bank and Insurance firms of Wall Street. These same firms that ruined the economy with incomprehensible bundled mortgage schemes now want to do the same with life insurance policies. Please note that the same corporations selling life insurance also sell health insurance. Please note again that many also sell investment portfolios and are all part of the Wall Street cartel that received TARP funds either directly or through back door deals. The way these investments would work is that the younger one dies, the greater the payoff. If a policy holder lives beyond the statistically ‘expected years’, the investor loses money. If they can profit grandly from clients dying early, the last thing they would want is a healthy population living longer. They already make huge profits taking premiums and denying treatments and now they want to create another means to profit when you die early because treatments were denied. This is why they are fighting so hard to keep medical decisions in their hands and why this cannot continue. END OF LETTER So you see, expect things to get worse before they get better. This is a piece of their final end game; make a killing while you are living and make a killing by killing you while killing you will still be profitable. The whole system is beyond corrupt. Sorry if I just gave you something else to fester over and worry about, but i prefer to think of it as giving you a warning and letting you know what to look for in the near future. And in comparing Kucinich to the Blue dogs, here is the distinction. Blue dogs voted against the bill BECAUSE IT HAD A PUBLIC OPTION. Kucinich voted against it BECAUSE ITS PUBLIC OPTION IS A FUCKING JOKE. Big difference in philosophy!! It will actually COST MORE THAN THE COMPARABLE COVERAGE MANDATED PRIVATE PLANS. If I have to help pay for a senators heath care, that freeloading sumnabitch should have to do the same for me. Fair is fair right? And since they get so much mony from Big Corp Inc. why should we taxpayers even have to give them a single penny. We sure don't get anything for our money that is useful other than roads, but those were buit in the interests of commerce and military (always military) in mind more than the public interest. |
mk
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... I don't think we disagree on much. Everyone here seems to see things pretty much the way I see 'em. The differences are small and irrelevant. Our challenge is waking up the rest of the general populace, or at least a decent portion thereof. Bringing them to our way of understanding what's gone wrong in this country. In general, people are sheepish things, so once we reach a critical mass, the dominoes will fall with surprising speed. I really don't think it is very far away. You can feel it building. Just like 1789 and 1929, 2009 was a great time to be a fat cat, but I don't think it's going to be that way much longer. Guillotine time is coming. |
Kyle
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... MK--yea, I agree, but someone is dying every 17 minutes. I have a condition that needs treated soon or wil be disastrous. Does anyone know what happened to reversing the insurance industry's anti-trust exemption? Did they buy their way out of that too? |
Clee
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... To Kyle, here is an interesting article. http://altnews.com.au/drop/node/8330 It compares the American and Venezuelan constitutions. Stumbled on it at rense.com a few years back. I see this author, Stephen Lendem alot on Information Clearing House and Uruknet and The Times of Asia Or is it The Asian Times. So, I'm hoping this heatlh care deformation act fails now. I'm still pissed about TARP and the thought of being forced to personally give money to these other crooked financial terrorists really pisses me off. Just think of how this will create a lifetime of debt for those who can't afford or qualify for subsidies. Yearly fines plus interest on those fines sevied on the poor sonofabitch, whic I am sure as the sun is hot that one oft hose poor bastards will be me. And for me the willingness of the US Justice department to not prosecute these crooks, and the Obama crew to let crimes of the previous bunch go un-investigated is a personal insult. did my stupid crime, I owned it and was prosecuted and did jail time, paid fines and did everything the state told me to do and to see these people get off scott free for crimes that affected millions and continue to affect millions is a huge kick in the 'nads for me and every other person convicted o a crime in this 'Land of the Incarcerated". Smoke a joing, show your wang in pulic or steal a six pack and bammo, your life is ruined. Throw millions of people into the streets and into poverty, let people die through denial of critical treatments and destroy entire nations, and you get a trillion dollar bonus, the praise of the masses and a free ride to keep doing the same thing. They say tat if you want sympathy, look in a dictionary between 'shit' and 'syphilis'. I ain't looking for sympathy, just the equal application of justice to everyone. 'Justice is in the dictionary too between 'joke' and 'sick'. So what is the next step? Tax rebellion? Sit ins at local offices of our corporate whores? Some kind of massive non violent "V for Vendetta" gathering? Just how do you get these fucks to actually hear the words and consider the needs of the common person? I really don't know anymore. How do we get our lobbyists together I mentioned i another posting? Money is the only thing these pricks respond to ad it is, to me at least, the answer to our collective plight. |
Kyle
said:
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... clee--thanks, nice of you to think of that. yes the 'justice system" is unjust as hell, I suppose you heard that the 22 Bear Stearns ass wipes just walked...I wondered how many people died from homelessness because of them? They will arrest people for "drugs" and peace marches, but not wealthy murderers. |
Kyle
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... Finally heard from the supposedly liberal senator, Brown, here is the blah blah letter: ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Thank you for expressing your concerns about the state of the American health care system. The Senate is currently examining many issues relating to health care reform in the 111th Congress. I appreciate the input I have received from Ohioans on this issue. The increasingly fragmented and inefficient health care system in the U.S. is a major concern. While premiums mount for those with health care plans, nearly 50 million Americans remain uninsured and millions more are underinsured. And despite staggeringly high health care costs, our nation lags behind other developed countries across a spectrum of health indicators. I support legislation that would establish a single coverage system modeled after Medicare. Whether the measure is cost, access, or quality, our nation would be better off establishing Medicare for all than continuing to rely on an uneven patchwork health insurance system. However, securing Medicare for all remains an uphill battle and it should not be pursued to the exclusion of more immediate coverage expansion strategies. I support efforts to establish a public insurance option plan to compete against the private insurance systems coupled with strengthened Medicare and Medicaid programs. I appreciate hearing your views. As work on health care form continues in Congress, I will be sure to keep your views in mind. Thank you again for getting in touch with me. Sincerely, Sherrod Brown United States Senator |
Clee
said:
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... Why is it that I have a hrd time taking SB seriously? just more of the same BS to make us think he (and they) are listening to us, sort of like I (and you?) often do when missioionaries disturb an otherwise tranquil day. "Oh yeah, I certainly will sit down tonight and read Leviticus 19:3 through 8". just to shut them up. I've gotton a few responses from my alleged congressman, Bob Bishop too. They always tell me he is fighting against public health care and saving me from the slippery slope towards Socialism, pretty much the wrong thing to say to me i he wants my vote. He is the guy who was a former lobbyist for Energy Solutions, a Utah company fighting for the ability to store European produced depleted uranium in the state. Yup, he's got my best interests in his heart. So how do we start a tax revolt within the ranks of progressives, based on getting something useful for our conscripted dollars? How many are going to not go along with thw fines and forced handover of billions to billionaires? One person alone doing so is useless. Millions would send a real message. This is I feel a option to consider. It is pretty clear voting an pleading is not working now. And any thoughts about forming a public based lobby group I mentioned awhile back? We need our Riddick Moment, if you will,we need to fight his corruption wit a different kind of corruption, but with goals centered on the public good and directly opposed to the idea of corporate good. The two are mutually exclusive, at least under the conditions as they currently exist today. And I would like to throw this out to anyone in Utah, particularly in the Utah County area that may read this blog. I have nearly 200 videos about many subjects ignored and suppressed, even censored from US corporate media and would like to find some people in the area wiling to host viddie screening parties n their homes or apartments. Please contact me if interested at cpmes100@yahoo.com or cpaul911@hotmail.com. |
Sally Gellert
said:
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... Clark, I hear your bitterness. I empathize. I want to reassure you, but it is virtually impossible. To their credit, Messrs. Kucinich and Massa voted against the house bill in the end. Now we move to the Senate. THANK YOU for all you've done to bring so many together in this cause, and to make SP so difficult to ignore. At least we have no illusions life about how the "game"—which this is much to serious to be—is "played". The core activists will fight on to the bitter end, educating as we go, which is all we can do until we VOTE THE BUMS OUT! |
clie739474-2
said:
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... "hello, This is about online payment.There is a massive change underway in the mobile media market as it becomes unshackled from the operators’ portals that have dominated it for a decade, all without having made any significant inroads into the content use of mobile users. The new capped data packages, fuelled by further competition, will see a total revamp of the mobile media market. It will no longer be based on portals but on direct services by content and services providers via open source phones and mobile-friendly Internet-based services. The next step is the continued emergence of m-commerce and in particular m-payment services. regards hazz.hazz" |
cli820461277
said:
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... " .Hello, 'Yes', the Cart can be used for subscriptions. Majority of our merchants' buyers are actually international. Sadly, not a lot of local users are accustomed to buying things online. It does not include a website (although we also offer that service separately). You can get any 3rd party to do the website and we will just integrate with them. regards hazz.hazz" |
somaie
said:
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... Everyone has their favorite way of using the internet. Many of us search to find what we want, click in to a specific website, read what’s available and click out. That’s not necessarily a bad thing because it’s efficient. We learn to tune out things we don’t need and go straight for what’s essential. This goal-oriented way of surfing the web is largely based on short-term results. For example, finding facts to write a blog post, doing a comparison before making a purchase and reading a news site to find out what’s happening right now. www.onlineuniversalwork.com |
kiramatali shah
said:
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... Many companies all over the world need your opinions on their products. They will send you a simple online survey forms, where you need to fill it out and they pay you money. The most remarkable thing about this paid survey program is that anyone can make money with it. It doesn't require any special skills, training, education or previous business experience. You only need access to the Internet and basic typing skills. It is the perfect home business for stay at home moms, students, home makers, retirees or anyone that is in need of some extra cash. |
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